Legislature(2011 - 2012)BUTROVICH 205

03/16/2011 01:30 PM Senate JUDICIARY


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01:35:34 PM Start
01:35:45 PM Confirmation Hearing
03:00:21 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Location Change --
+ Confirmation Hearing: TELECONFERENCED
John J. Burns, Attorney General
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         March 16, 2011                                                                                         
                           1:35 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hollis French, Chair                                                                                                    
Senator Bill Wielechowski, Vice Chair                                                                                           
Senator Joe Paskvan                                                                                                             
Senator Lesil McGuire                                                                                                           
Senator John Coghill                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CONFIRMATION HEARING                                                                                                            
     Attorney General - Department of Law (DOL)                                                                               
          John J. Burns                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     - CONFIRMATION ADVANCED                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JOHN J. BURNS, Attorney General Designee                                                                                        
Department of Law (DOL)                                                                                                         
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified as designee to the position of                                                                 
Attorney General for the State of Alaska.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:35:34 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  HOLLIS   FRENCH  called  the  Senate   Judiciary  Standing                                                             
Committee  meeting  to  order  at  1:35  p.m.  Senators  Coghill,                                                               
Paskvan, McGuire, and  French were present at the  call to order.                                                               
Senator Wielechowski arrived soon thereafter.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
                     ^CONFIRMATION HEARING                                                                                    
           Attorney General - Department of Law (DOL)                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:35:45 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR FRENCH  announced the business  before the  committee would                                                               
be the confirmation hearing of John  J. Burns for the position of                                                               
Attorney General for the State  of Alaska. He expressed hope that                                                               
the new Attorney  General would serve a long  time, because there                                                               
is benefit  to a lengthy tenure.  He noted that he  had submitted                                                               
questions for Mr. Burns to answer.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:37:00 PM                                                                                                                    
JOHN  J.  BURNS, Attorney  General  Designee,  Department of  Law                                                               
(DOL),  said he  didn't  seek  this position  but  is honored  to                                                               
fulfill it.  As an Alaskan  of 51 years,  he has a  commitment to                                                               
Alaska  and a  desire  to  contribute to  the  betterment of  the                                                               
state. He grew  up in Nome, and  spent a lot of  time in villages                                                               
such as Diomede  and King Island. His family  moved to Fairbanks,                                                               
where he  has resided since. He  is a graduate of  the University                                                               
of Alaska  and the Puget  Sound School of  Law, and for  the past                                                               
twenty-five years  has been an  attorney in private  practice. He                                                               
also served  for many years  as an adjunct professor  of business                                                               
law at the University of Alaska Anchorage.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
During the three  months since his appointment, he  has taken the                                                               
opportunity to travel  to Bethel, Nome, and Barrow,  to meet with                                                               
rural leaders,  judges, law enforcement  officials, and  to visit                                                               
women's  shelters  and youth  facilities  with  the intention  of                                                               
better  understanding   the  needs  of  rural   communities.  His                                                               
objective as attorney  general is to uphold  the constitution and                                                               
to enforce  the laws of  the State of Alaska,  and to do  so with                                                               
dignity  and   integrity,  being  consistent  with   his  ethical                                                               
obligations.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:38:18 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI joined the meeting.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:39:55 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR FRENCH asked how he happened to go to law school                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY GENERAL BURNS said his  biologist father wasn't excited.                                                               
He went straight to law  school from undergraduate studies. After                                                               
the first  year it became enjoyable  because it was a  pursuit of                                                               
knowledge, unrestrained from responsibilities.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
During law  school he continued  working during the  summers with                                                               
Fish and  Game in places like  Scammon Bay and Hooper  Bay and he                                                               
traveled  the Yukon  River doing  subsistence surveys.  After law                                                               
school he  had an extended  externship with Judge  Rabinowitz and                                                               
was  a  Superior  Court  clerk working  with  four  judges.  This                                                               
allowed him  to learn the rule  of law, the procedures,  and what                                                               
the judge was  looking for. From there he worked  at Birch Horton                                                               
with  35-40 other  attorneys, primarily  on financial  issues. He                                                               
and a partner disassociated amicably  to form a private practice.                                                               
He  has always  tried  to  be the  best  lawyer  possible and  to                                                               
improve.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:44:59 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR FRENCH  asked how many jury  trials he has done  and has he                                                               
taken any to the Ninth Circuit.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY GENERAL BURNS  answered he has not had a  case go to the                                                               
Ninth  Circuit. He  has had  only  four cases  before the  Alaska                                                               
Supreme Court. His  was mainly a motion  practice. His philosophy                                                               
is that everyone loses if you end in a trial.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH asked  who he  works for  in the  role of  attorney                                                               
general. He added  that he sees it  as a dual role;  you work for                                                               
the governor and you work for the people.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY  GENERAL BURNS  responded  he is  the  attorney for  the                                                               
governor and  the state of  Alaska. His  first duty is  to uphold                                                               
the constitution.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH  noted he had  worked in  the civil arena  and asked                                                               
what he views as the  biggest challenge facing the civil division                                                               
and how he will address this.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY  GENERAL BURNS  said DOL  has very  dedicated attorneys.                                                               
This leads  to the primary  concern that the workforce  is aging;                                                               
25-30 percent  is currently eligible  for retirement.  When these                                                               
individuals leave,  the state  will be  hurting. For  this reason                                                               
DOL needs to recruit and  mentor attorneys. This is mentoring and                                                               
succession  planning.   It  is  probably  an   issue  that  other                                                               
departments face.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:49:29 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  MCGUIRE thanked  AG Burns  for  setting up  face-to-face                                                               
interviews with all  legislators. He was tapped for  this job and                                                               
he left a successful practice to  serve the state. This is one of                                                               
the  most  important  positions  in  the state  and  he  has  her                                                               
support.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
She asked his  plan as the state looks forward  50-100 years with                                                               
respect to resource development.  The framers held the subsurface                                                               
rights in  common, for the  people. There has been  difficulty in                                                               
recent years; oil production is down,  there was a setback in the                                                               
NPRA ConocoPhillips lease, an EPA  ruling that's been challenged,                                                               
and  a  series  of  land   that  is  controlled  by  the  federal                                                               
government. She  asked what his  mission will be with  respect to                                                               
resource development.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:53:07 PM                                                                                                                    
ATTORNEY  GENERAL BURNS  said he's  met  with 59  members of  the                                                               
Legislature, all but the one who was rerouted by TSA.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
He said it  is his hope and dream that  the rights and privileges                                                               
of  the  statehood  compact  can be  achieved.  There  have  been                                                               
significant  issues  in  achieving those  objectives.  Litigation                                                               
ought to  be the last resort.  Dialogue is the only  way. Most of                                                               
the state  is owned  by the federal  government but  that doesn't                                                               
mean they should lock it up.  It is his firm belief that dialogue                                                               
will achieve  more than litigation.  He intends to  dialogue with                                                               
the federal government and work  with the various stakeholders to                                                               
come  to some  resolution. He  also  met with  the House  Finance                                                               
Committee  and  they  discussed  these issues  and  how  to  work                                                               
cooperatively.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
He noted that  he just returned from the  National Association of                                                               
Attorneys  General   (NAAG)  meeting  and  the   focus  was  that                                                               
dialoging is of  utmost importance. He also met  with the Western                                                               
Attorneys  General and  Secretary Salazar.  It will  be dialogue,                                                               
but we recognize  that litigation must always be an  arrow in the                                                               
quiver and we must always be  willing to pull that arrow from the                                                               
quiver. You can be assured that  I will do whatever is consistent                                                               
with the constitution to achieve this, he stated.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:57:29 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR FRENCH asked what he sees will change the aging workforce.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY GENERAL BURNS said we  are not necessarily looking for a                                                               
younger workforce,  but rather  a good,  solid workforce  that is                                                               
dedicated  and  has  a  good  work ethic.  We  will  continue  to                                                               
recruit, mentor, and  retain, but most we must  work through that                                                               
succession plan.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mentoring is very  important. We need to work  on developing that                                                               
mentorship to provide good training  in a systematic way. We will                                                               
bring in educational work programs.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Accountability  is  also  important  and we  haven't  kept  these                                                               
statistics to  date. Statistics aren't intended  to show win/loss                                                               
records. Statistics are good mentoring tools.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:00:50 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR FRENCH  asked about the  criminal division where  there may                                                               
be too  much turnover.  He asked if  Attorney General  Burns sees                                                               
this as a problem.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY GENERAL  BURNS said he's been  incredibly impressed with                                                               
the  attorneys  in  the  criminal division.  He  spoke  with  Mr.                                                               
Svobodny about  turnover and he can  report that it is  below the                                                               
national average.  It is never good  to lose a good  attorney but                                                               
after law  school they have lots  of debt and can  get good trial                                                               
experience and develop  skills on the state's nickel.  In five to                                                               
seven years  many move on and  there isn't much that  can be done                                                               
about that  other than keeping  morale high and keeping  the work                                                               
varied and interesting.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:04:04 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR PASKVAN mentioned the statistics  for retirement and said                                                               
it will be important to think  about the golden handcuffs to keep                                                               
those bright young  attorneys working for the state  for years to                                                               
come.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY GENERAL BURNS said the DOL is looking into this.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:05:15 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  asked how  involved  he  is in  the  Point                                                               
Thomson negotiations.  There is concern  that BP and  Conoco feel                                                               
left out and there is concern in the Legislature.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY GENERAL BURNS said the DOL  is involved and aware of the                                                               
concerns raised by  producers and those are  being addressed. Any                                                               
resolution will be focused on the best interests of the state.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  said  to  the extent  that  Resources  and                                                               
Judiciary  members  could be  included  he  would appreciate  it,                                                               
because that  will have cascading  affects. He is  concerned that                                                               
resources on the  North Slope aren't being  developed even though                                                               
the  producers  are required  to  do  so.  He asked  if  Attorney                                                               
General Burns had looked into this issue.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY GENERAL  BURNS replied  the DOL  is addressing  this and                                                               
will  try to  provide a  confidential overview  to the  Resources                                                               
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR   WIELECHOWSKI  asked   about   tribal  sovereignty   and                                                               
mentioned  Kaltag. The  tribal court  issued a  decision and  the                                                               
state disagreed and intervened.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:09:38 PM                                                                                                                    
ATTORNEY GENERAL BURNS  said sometimes a court has  to define the                                                               
issues and that's  what was done in Tanana. It  provides a little                                                               
clarity on the jurisdiction of  tribes to deal with children. The                                                               
decision provides an opportunity  to work cooperatively to ensure                                                               
that  the best  interests of  tribal children  are protected.  In                                                               
Tanana  some  issues  weren't  addressed  but  need  to  be;  for                                                               
example, jurisdiction  over nonmembers,  and jurisdiction  over a                                                               
non-consenting  member.  He has  been  involved  in Indian  Child                                                               
Welfare Act  (IQWA) memorandum of  understanding and  he believes                                                               
that Tanana provides a wonderful opportunity.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH  asked if  he sees DOL  crafting new  guidelines for                                                               
the state in the face of that ruling.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY GENERAL  BURNS said  the decision  mandates that  but it                                                               
can't  be   done  without  dialogue.  The   Supreme  Court  could                                                               
reinstitute  Child in  Need  of Aid  (CINA)  provisions, but  all                                                               
parties recognize the  importance of acting quickly  to know what                                                               
circumstances  are   important.  Due   process  rights   must  be                                                               
protected.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:13:38 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR FRENCH asked  about Kasayulie v. State and  Moore v. State,                                                             
both of which deal with school funding.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY GENERAL BURNS  said he is aware of  the cases. Kasayulie                                                               
since 1997 has  dealt with school construction  funding. Moore on                                                               
the other  hand since 2004  deals with the state's  obligation to                                                               
provide  quality  education  in  all  areas  of  the  state.  DOL                                                               
continues to  engage in dialogue  regarding those matters  and is                                                               
seeking to  do mediation coupled  with a master to  facilitate if                                                               
mediation isn't  successful. He  would like  to bring  closure to                                                               
both cases  but resolution, particularly  with Kasayulie,  has to                                                               
do with funding, which is within the purview of the Legislature.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:15:58 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR PASKVAN asked  him to comment on the  state's position on                                                               
intervening to establish R.S. 2477 access.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY  GENERAL  BURNS  said the  federal  government  is  more                                                               
stringent  now.  The DNR  is  now  prioritizing R.S.  2477  while                                                               
identifying those  that have the  greatest chance of  success. It                                                               
is collaborative between DNR and DOL.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  asked him to  discuss the clients  he's had                                                               
and the conflicts he may have as attorney general.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY GENERAL BURNS said his  client list is long and diverse.                                                               
The list is  filed in the APOC report. DOL  has reviewed the list                                                               
to determine whether  or not there is a conflict.  If there is he                                                               
will effectively be walled off from participation.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH asked if he had done work for oil companies.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY GENERAL BURNS answered no.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH asked about Native corporations                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY GENERAL BURNS answered  he had represented Tanana Chiefs                                                               
and Doyon, primarily over business issues.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:20:02 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  mentioned  consumer protection  and  price                                                               
gouging. He  asked if  Attorney General Burns  had looked  at the                                                               
report  filed  by   a  past  attorney  general  and   if  he  had                                                               
suggestions about the price of  gasoline because many legislators                                                               
believe that there has been price gouging.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY  GENERAL  BURNS  said  the  reports  couldn't  find  any                                                               
illegal  activity   and  no  action   was  taken.   The  consumer                                                               
protection  division of  DOL  advocates  vigorously for  consumer                                                               
rights.  He  doesn't  have a  particular  recommendation  because                                                               
prices  are  high  but  there  is  nothing  tangible  that  would                                                               
substantiate that there is price gouging.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  asked him to  comment on TSA pat  downs and                                                               
if they  might be illegal if  they started in Alaska,  due to the                                                               
privacy protection in our state constitution.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY  GENERAL  BURNS said  he  hadn't  looked into  the  most                                                               
recent event  but the department would  do so and he  would share                                                               
the information with the committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:23:33 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  asked if  he  believes  that the  attorney                                                               
general should be elected.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY  GENERAL BURNS  said it  wasn't  until he  was asked  to                                                               
assume the  role that he  began to look at  the issue and  he can                                                               
see benefits  for both  sides. At the  recent NAAG  conference he                                                               
learned about  the surprising cost of  attorney general elections                                                               
and that Alaska  is one of four states that  appoints rather than                                                               
elects. He would  prefer the attorney general to  be impartial to                                                               
the politics of law, and not susceptible to political pressures.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:25:48 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  FRENCH  noted  that  in  territorial  years  the  attorney                                                               
general was elected.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COGHILL  observed that  we agree  when it's  the attorney                                                               
general we want.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
He said he's always alarmed by  the number of cases that are plea                                                               
bargained. Second,  in outlying areas  and even in  Fairbanks the                                                               
misdemeanors aren't handled very well.  It looks like only felons                                                               
are subject to the law. He asked if this was accurate.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY  GENERAL BURNS  responded  it's a  matter of  resources.                                                               
Matters  are prioritized  according to  urgency and  the greatest                                                               
risk of  harm. They prosecute  as many misdemeanors  and felonies                                                               
as  possible.   Also,  the  department  is   very  interested  in                                                               
addressing sexual assault. Every  case is evaluated independently                                                               
and the facts  must be gathered in order  to justify prosecution.                                                               
Some cases  are pled down  because the facts don't  support going                                                               
forward.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:29:15 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR COGHILL said  the police have discretion  on charging and                                                               
DOL has discretion  on prosecuting and the  court has discretion.                                                               
This means that a lot of cases  don't even get a policeman at the                                                               
front door. He asked Attorney General  Burns if he had heard of a                                                               
disparity regarding what the police  are charging and what DOL is                                                               
taking to court.  He asked if we  are doing a good  enough job of                                                               
instructing police.  It seems  like the tougher  we get  the more                                                               
resources are required.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY GENERAL  BURNS said  he has met  with rural  leaders and                                                               
some have  indicated that they  feel that DOL  doesn't diligently                                                               
prosecute.  As  a  result  he is  convening  the  Bethel  Justice                                                               
Project to  identify the  issues. AGs are  saying the  quality of                                                               
the police  report isn't solid,  so they  can't take the  case to                                                               
court. He is  asking if they are interfacing with  the police and                                                               
following  up.  Again,  it  is important  to  dialogue  on  these                                                               
particular issues.  Recently an AG  was hired in Bethel  and that                                                               
person plays a critical role  representing DOL in that community.                                                               
That person  must be the  liaison between DOL, police,  and rural                                                               
community leaders.  The dialogue needs to  be ongoing, especially                                                               
with regard to the VPSOs and the VSOs.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:33:31 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  FRENCH  said  he appreciates  this  attention  to  Western                                                               
Alaska  because the  sexual assault  rate, while  high throughout                                                               
the state,  is epidemic there.  He feels  that it is  upstream of                                                               
DOL that  the greatest gains  can be  made, in terms  of stronger                                                               
reporting,  stronger  police work,  faster  follow  up, and  more                                                               
evidence collection.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  COGHILL said  police  work comes  up  during the  budget                                                               
process and it's necessary to keep the dialogue open.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:35:37 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR FRENCH said he asked  Attorney General Burns to be prepared                                                               
to discuss  the advice  he gave to  Governor Parnell  between the                                                               
time that  Judge Vinson ruled  on January 31 that  the Affordable                                                               
Care Act was  unconstitutional and March 4 when  the judge issued                                                               
a  formal stay  of  his  order. About  midway  through that  time                                                               
period Attorney General Burns opined  that the ruling was binding                                                               
law  whereas a  legislative  legal memo  from  Dennis Bailey  was                                                               
contrary to that perspective. He  asked Attorney General Burns to                                                               
comment.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:36:39 PM                                                                                                                    
ATTORNEY  GENERAL BURNS  said  this is  another  reason that  the                                                               
state benefits  in having  an appointed  attorney general.  It is                                                               
not  his  role  to  respond  to issues  like  this;  it  will  be                                                               
addressed by a court.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
He read the following into the record:                                                                                          
     On January 31,  2011, Judge Roger Vinson  of the United                                                                    
     States  District Court  for  the  Northern District  of                                                                    
     Florida  granted  summary  judgment  to  the  26  state                                                                    
     plaintiffs  challenging  the   Patient  Protection  and                                                                    
     Affordable  Care   Act.  Judge  Vinson's   order  found                                                                    
     unconstitutional the "individual  mandate" provision of                                                                    
     the  Affordable  Care  Act, which  would  require  that                                                                    
     everyone,  with  certain limited  exceptions,  purchase                                                                    
     federally-approved health  insurance or pay  a penalty.                                                                    
     Judge Vinson  held that the  individual mandate  is not                                                                    
     severable from  the rest of  the Act, and  he therefore                                                                    
     declared the entire Act void.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Alaska  was  a  party--a plaintiff--in  the  case,  and                                                                    
     parties are bound by the  court's judgment that the Act                                                                    
     is void.  That is  black-letter law.  As agents  of the                                                                    
     state, state officials must abide  by the decision. For                                                                    
     this reason, Dennis Bailey's  point that Judge Vinson's                                                                    
     order  has precedential  or stare  decisis effect  only                                                                    
     "in the limited territory"  of the Northern District of                                                                    
     Florida is  irrelevant. By filing this  lawsuit, Alaska                                                                    
     submitted  to the  jurisdiction of  the court  and must                                                                    
     follow the  court's decision. Thus, to  the extent that                                                                    
     the  Affordable   Care  Act  requires  any   action  or                                                                    
     implementation by  the State of Alaska,  it is "binding                                                                    
     law" as  to the  State of Alaska.  The state  could not                                                                    
     re-challenge  the  constitutionality   of  the  Act  in                                                                    
     either  a   state  or  federal   court  in   Alaska  or                                                                    
     elsewhere.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Of course,  the case  is stayed  pending a  decision on                                                                    
     appeal, so  the parties  are relived of  the injunctive                                                                    
     effect  of  the  decision until  the  Eleventh  Circuit                                                                    
     decides the appeal.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     With  regards to  the three  legal principles  noted in                                                                    
     Dennis Bailey's  opinion, that  opinion stated  that he                                                                    
     believed  the  application  of the  Florida  court  has                                                                    
     stare  decisis or  res judicata  preclusion. Again,  he                                                                    
     disagrees  with the  conclusion of  Leg legal  that the                                                                    
     Federal   District  Court   decision  would   not  have                                                                    
     conclusive effect  in another lawsuit between  the same                                                                    
     litigants pending  appeal in this case.  District court                                                                    
     decisions  are binding  on the  parties  unless a  stay                                                                    
     pending  appeal is  granted. An  undecided appeal  does                                                                    
     not otherwise  affect a  judgment's finality,  which is                                                                    
     still  binding  upon  the parties  while  an  appellate                                                                    
     court reviews  that order. The established  rule in the                                                                    
     federal court is  that a final judgment  retains all of                                                                    
     its res  judicata consequences pending the  decision on                                                                    
     the appeal.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     For  this reason,  I do  not concur  with Mr.  Bailey's                                                                    
     conclusion  that the  Florida  district court  decision                                                                    
     would  not have  preclusive effect  in another  lawsuit                                                                    
     between  the  same  litigants pending  appeal  in  this                                                                    
     case.  And  Judge  Vinson's  clarification  order  made                                                                    
     clear that the parties  were legally required to follow                                                                    
     the  order  immediately, and  that  they  did not  have                                                                    
     discretion to ignore it pending  appeal until he issued                                                                    
     a stay.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     As  to the  doctrine of  full  faith and  credit and  a                                                                    
     precedential  effect of  the decision,  which were  the                                                                    
     other  points,   that  the  Florida  decision   is  not                                                                    
     available  for enforcement  under  the  full faith  and                                                                    
     credit clause  and would  not have  precedential effect                                                                    
     in a  case between  the parties--those  statements have                                                                    
     no relevance  to the Affordable Care  litigation. It is                                                                    
     clear  that the  Florida district  court will  not have                                                                    
     the final word on the  constitutionality of the act, as                                                                    
     the United State has appealed  the case to the eleventh                                                                    
     circuit.  It is  therefore  irrelevant whether  another                                                                    
     court will give  full faith and credit  to the decision                                                                    
     while it  is on appeal.  The plaintiff states  will not                                                                    
     attempt to  enforce the judgment  in a  different court                                                                    
     while  the Supreme  Court  reviews  the district  court                                                                    
     decision. It is also irrelevant  that a decision by one                                                                    
     district  court is  not binding  on  another. In  fact,                                                                    
     several   district    courts   have    considered   the                                                                    
     constitutionality  of   this  Act  and   have  rendered                                                                    
     inconsistent decisions. This is  one of the reasons why                                                                    
     the issue  is likely  to be  decided ultimately  by the                                                                    
     Supreme Court.  The fact  that a  different court  in a                                                                    
     different  case--brought  by  different  parties--might                                                                    
     decide  the  case  differently  does  not  relieve  the                                                                    
     parties in this  case from the force and  effect of the                                                                    
     judgment made by the Florida court.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:43:37 PM                                                                                                                    
ATTORNEY GENERAL  BURNS said with  due respect he  disagrees with                                                               
the analysis provided by Legislative Legal Services.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH said he wonders how  the State of Alaska wound up in                                                               
a  courtroom in  Pensacola,  Florida.  It struck  him  as an  odd                                                               
decision.  In that  five  week period  only  five states,  Alaska                                                               
included, took that position.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:44:48 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR PASKVAN  said his thought  was why that  jurisdiction. He                                                               
asked about the issue of forum shopping.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY GENERAL  BURNS said he was  not in a position  to answer                                                               
that  question; he  inherited  the office  and  the decision  was                                                               
already made.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  said he was  surprised AG Burns  was taking                                                               
the  position   that  there  was   no  mistake  made,   and  said                                                               
legislative  counsel  has  disagreed   with  his  position;  most                                                               
importantly, the  judge in the  case disagrees. The  decision has                                                               
already cost the state $1 million  in lost federal funds, and may                                                               
cost more in the future.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY GENERAL  BURNS responded Judge Vinson  said the decision                                                               
was binding on the parties, and  subsequently said it is going to                                                               
a  higher court.  He stated,  "Conditioned on  the Department  of                                                               
Justice expediting its appeal …." AG  Burns also noted there is a                                                               
difference  between implementation,  which is  a legal  question,                                                               
and funding, which is a policy question.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  said the  state is  trying to  decide about                                                               
applying  for federal  funding and  the governor  relied on  your                                                               
decision not  to apply. He  questioned why AG Burns  wouldn't err                                                               
on the  side of safety  and apply for  the funds and  then return                                                               
them if need be.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY GENERAL  BURNS said the  decision was based on  the fact                                                               
that the  state was a  party to the  case. Each branch  must give                                                               
due respect to  the other branches. Once Judge  Vinson issued the                                                               
stay, it  was binding on  all parties.  The governor has  made it                                                               
clear that he intends to implement  at this juncture. That is his                                                               
obligation  under  the law.  There  is  a fundamental  difference                                                               
between funding and policy.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:51:29 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  COGHILL  said  he  understands the  dilemma  and  he  is                                                               
grateful that  the end  is in  sight. He  is pleased  that Alaska                                                               
joined the case, although it is a slow, messy process.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PASKVAN  said that  brings back  the question  of whether                                                               
the  Legislature should  be involved  in the  policy decision  of                                                               
whether to join  the suit. For a de minimus  price, the state has                                                               
surrendered great policy control to a jurisdiction in Florida.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY  GENERAL  BURNS said  the  state  is often  involved  in                                                               
consumer class actions  and Alaska isn't brought  in. Joining the                                                               
suit was a good use of  resources. It's a balancing of issues and                                                               
the issue  was that there was  an ongoing case. It  makes perfect                                                               
sense in retrospect.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:55:34 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR PASKVAN  asked where he  believes the state can  focus on                                                               
the Endangered Species Act (ESA).                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY GENERAL BURNS  said other states are  interested too but                                                               
they have  more budgetary constraints;  they are willing  to join                                                               
with  Alaska.  Like  so  many  regulations the  ESA  is  good  in                                                               
concept,  but  the application  has  become  problematic. DOL  is                                                               
focused on addressing those issues but  it will take time and the                                                               
state has  to work through  the federal delegation.  For example,                                                               
the Stellar  Sea Lion classification requires  scientific data to                                                               
specify that  the stocks  aren't healthy and  the food  source is                                                               
inadequate.  National Marine  Fisheries  Service can't  determine                                                               
the cause of declines in some  areas so they say they don't know,                                                               
so they'll look at human  activity and they close fisheries based                                                               
on that. It's a misapplication of the ESA.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:59:05 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  FRENCH asked  if  there was  anything  else the  committee                                                               
should know before making this important decision.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ATTORNEY GENERAL  BURNS said  this is about  results and  doing a                                                               
good job in  a department that is already excellent.  He wants to                                                               
ensure that it  remains excellent, and that they  are always held                                                               
to the highest level of integrity.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:00:01 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  moved to forward  the name John Burns  to a                                                               
the  full  Legislature  sitting  in joint  session  for  a  vote.                                                               
Without objection the name was forwarded.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:00:21 PM                                                                                                                    
There being  no further  business to  come before  the committee,                                                               
Chair French adjourned the meeting at 3:00 p.m.                                                                                 

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